60 replies to this topic

[nbv386]

i am soon going to be the new proud owner of an sr12 but i want to make it into a DMR(sorry if i do not answer for a week im going on vacation).

also i did read the other posts and i did at least 6 hrs of research.

here is what im thinking:

1. 10.8v 3000 MAH battery.

2. guarder sp130 spring(will this where out my internals too fast i don't want to spend a lot or repairs/replacements.

3. z-rhop(will i see a big improvement using rhop with the stock barrel vs. stock barrel and 2gx hop up) and is their a performance differences between the z-rhop and the normal rhop.

4. Ksc 0.25 bbs

5. my goal range is at least 250 ft and i dont care about a little trigger delay i dont need a bb shot the moment i pull the trigger

6.also will i need a new motor and if so what would be the most cost effective.

7.i dont have a job so i want a lot of reliability and if i need a new anything i am on a buget

8. Also what shims should I use if I need them.

any tips or suggestions will be appreciated thanks

Edited by nbv386, 11 May 2012 - 08:33 PM.

[aaps59]

Heya welcome to the forums. You should know that KWA's are usually pretty great out of the box, and that you may want to wait until the 45 days are over after you purchase your gun to modify it. If you modify your gun before 45 days are up from the purchase date, you will void your warranty.
The battery should be fine, but I do recommend a LIPO.
2. Spring shouldn't be too hard on the internals, as long as its installed correctly
3. Rhop is a good upgrade, just need to be patient and follow the guides.
4. Great BB's
5. You should be able to get that with a properly installed Rhop. You may see a small increase in trigger delay with a SP130, but nothing horrible. If you want to compensate for the lost trigger response, you could install deans connectors on your gun and your battery. This would help a bit. Also, a lipo...
6. The KWA motor should be fine with the upgrades you have proposed. Its a great motor.

[nbv386]

aaps59, on 11 May 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Heya welcome to the forums. You should know that KWA's are usually pretty great out of the box, and that you may want to wait until the 45 days are over after you purchase your gun to modify it. If you modify your gun before 45 days are up from the purchase date, you will void your warranty.
The battery should be fine, but I do recommend a LIPO.
2. Spring shouldn't be too hard on the internals, as long as its installed correctly
3. Rhop is a good upgrade, just need to be patient and follow the guides.
4. Great BB's
5. You should be able to get that with a properly installed Rhop. You may see a small increase in trigger delay with a SP130, but nothing horrible. If you want to compensate for the lost trigger response, you could install deans connectors on your gun and your battery. This would help a bit. Also, a lipo...
6. The KWA motor should be fine with the upgrades you have proposed. Its a great motor.

[nbv386]

Whoops sorry I'm new with this but thanks and I thuought about the lipo and for now I want to stay with a 10.8v

I also have a 9.6 2200 mah(sorry I can't remember what it's called nimh I think I'm sure I'm wrong) but will it pull an sp130

Thank I will wait on the mods but will I need shims for an sp130?

Also will deans connectors last longer?

Edited by nbv386, 11 May 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[aaps59]

Deans connectors will last longer. A 9.6 will pull it, but not as well as a 11.1 or a 10.8 will. I don't think you will necessarily need shims for a SP130, but don't quote me on that one. Im not too knowledgeable with gear shimming.

[nbv386]

And one more question what kind of fps/range will I be getting with that setup thanks

[vanevery]

I have a Guarder SP130 in one of my KWA m16's
I think i get around 475 fps w/ .20's.
A 9.6v battery will pull it just fine. Your ROF will be very slow with it.
I use a 10.8v 4200 mah battery and that gives me a decent ROF, but I mainly shoot semi-auto with it so ROF really does not matter.
I agree with aaps59. Go Li-po, 11.1v.
I suggest shimming over not shimming.

[nbv386]

vanevery, on 11 May 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

I have a Guarder SP130 in one of my KWA m16's
I think i get around 475 fps w/ .20's.
A 9.6v battery will pull it just fine. Your ROF will be very slow with it.
I use a 10.8v 4200 mah battery and that gives me a decent ROF, but I mainly shoot semi-auto with it so ROF really does not matter.
I agree with aaps59. Go Li-po, 11.1v.
I suggest shimming over not shimming.

ok thanks I will want to get my gears shimed and I dont care too much about the rof all I want is about 12-14 bps and I will be on semi most of the time and is it common for your semi-auto switch to break I have an m4 right now and it's only 4 months old and the semi broke.

Also I already have a smart charger for my 9.6 and I'm on a budget so I'd like to stick with the Ni-mh battery's

Edited by nbv386, 11 May 2012 - 11:44 PM.

[Jatodude]

As an owner of an SR-12, I've gone through this entire thing already myself.

1: That battery would be fine, but I highly suggest investing in a Li-Po.  A Li-Po and balance charger would probably be as much as your 10.8v that you want, if you get it from the right place.  A 10.8v gives a little less than satisfactory trigger response and ROF with an M130.  I very highly recommend that you get a Li-Po.  You'll need a 9.6v bare-minimum for your SP130.  I tried an 8.4v and it couldn't pull the M130 back. (I do find this strange because I got a 7.2v to work good with the M120)

2. The SP130 spring will be just fine.  I opted to go with an M130 though to keep it at about 440fps or so.  With the stock barrel and that spring you should yield results that are about 460fps.

3. Don't know much about it.  The stock hop-up bucking gave me enough accuracy to hit anywhere on the field.

4. You need heavier bb's.  28g's at the least.  Possibly KSC .30g's. Trust me.

5. 250ft will be possible. Most likely not on the first shot, but 460fps or so, .30g or similar bb's, and the right hop-setting and it should be just fine.  Last time I airsofted I actually got a one shot head shot at about 180ft.  You'll probably have to account for quite a bit of drop though.

6.  You don't need a new motor.

7. ???

8. Shouldn't really NEED to shim.  The spring change is pretty quick.

[nbv386]

Jatodude, on 12 May 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

As an owner of an SR-12, I've gone through this entire thing already myself.

1: That battery would be fine, but I highly suggest investing in a Li-Po.  A Li-Po and balance charger would probably be as much as your 10.8v that you want, if you get it from the right place.  A 10.8v gives a little less than satisfactory trigger response and ROF with an M130.  I very highly recommend that you get a Li-Po.  You'll need a 9.6v bare-minimum for your SP130.  I tried an 8.4v and it couldn't pull the M130 back. (I do find this strange because I got a 7.2v to work good with the M120)

2. The SP130 spring will be just fine.  I opted to go with an M130 though to keep it at about 440fps or so.  With the stock barrel and that spring you should yield results that are about 460fps.

3. Don't know much about it.  The stock hop-up bucking gave me enough accuracy to hit anywhere on the field.

4. You need heavier bb's.  28g's at the least.  Possibly KSC .30g's. Trust me.

5. 250ft will be possible. Most likely not on the first shot, but 460fps or so, .30g or similar bb's, and the right hop-setting and it should be just fine.  Last time I airsofted I actually got a one shot head shot at about 180ft.  You'll probably have to account for quite a bit of drop though.

6.  You don't need a new motor.

7. ???

8. Shouldn't really NEED to shim.  The spring change is pretty quick.

ok thanks im most likely to have my local tec just shim it, he charges a standard fee so heres what im thinking.....
1. sp130

2. shims(its basically free for me)

3. deans connectors(will i still be able to use standard battery's or will i need to install deans connectors on my battery)

4. rhop(i don't want to extend my hop up but should i get an ir-hop, rhop, z-rhop, or zi-rhop)

5. ksc .25 bbs(i dont have to money for .30)

6. 7.4v li-po(i dont want an insane ROF)


on number 7. i meant that i dont have a lot of money to throw at it so i dont want to stress anything out too much, i want it to last about 2-3 years(about 40-50k bbs a year)

also i called my local tec and he had never heard of rhop so he did some reserch and called me back and said that its just over-hop is this true?

[vanevery]

if your airsoft tech has never heard of the R-hop, I would highly, highly advise you to never, never use this "tech" to ever work on your gun.

Let me offer you some advice by a owner of four KWA 's and one who tech's my own guns.
If your budget is so tight, the tech you mentioned is your "best" option, and you can't tech your own guns to fix his mistakes and just commion problems that eventually occur with all airsoft guns, Do Not Open Up Your Gearbox or have anybody else do it for a while.
The performance gain will be minimal, and the increase of risk for many things to go wrong greatly increases.
Big Risk, Little Reward.

If your looking to increase performance, not spend much money, and keep your risk ultra low for problems,
learn to take apart your Hop-up chamber. This will allow you to clean the Hop-up unit, bucking, and inner barrel properly, give you the knowledge on how to do inner barrel changes, and the know how to change your bucking and nub.
A simple inner barrel, bucking and nub change can increse range, accuracy, and FPS.
Your KWA stock inner barrel is great and will not even need to be changed.
Here is the link to learn how: http://kwausa.com/fo...p?showtopic=493
It looks way more complicated than it is and we are here to walk you through it should you run into trouble.
From there, you can learn to Flat-Hop or R-hop your buckings and see what you might get.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

[Jatodude]

It should last quite some time.  And if you want to use Deans connectors you have to take cut the regular Tamiya connector off, and solder the Deans connector to the wires coming from your gun.  As well as re-solder your battery.  The place I get my batteries lets you choose what connector comes on the battery so I didn't have to do that.

If you're going to go with 460fps, and possibly R-Hop, it's vital that you use heavy bb's.  .25g's just went everywhere in my SR-12 because I couldn't apply any hop to it without them going into low-earth orbit lol.  It's really important.

And if you're making this into a DMR, I suggest that you have a scope as well.  Because it's extremely difficult to get hits at long range when you have no idea what your bb's are doing, especially when you're shooting semi-auto.

And I believe R-Hop has more than just "over-hop" too it.

Edit: As far as the insane ROF goes, it really isn't bad.  With the M120 it was really fast, something like 26.5bps.  But using an SP130 it will be a bit slower.

Edited by Jatodude, 12 May 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[nbv386]

Well he is a good tech he has been doing this for 7 yrs. and I am confident that he can do it.

But I think that I will do the rhop but I will set it for .25 but will turn the hop up on for .30 bbs

Also I might just wait Untill I  can open the gear box I can now but I'm not too confident.

I will keep the stock barrel I might go lipo and I will wait Untill I can properly install and shim the gearbox.

Also can I just use a firefly nub for the rhop or do I need the mnub

Also yes I have a scope and a bipod and I'm going to put on a vertical grip.

I don't think that I will do deans connectors and I will save up and get the spring, shims, lipo 7.4, smart charger and rhop an use ksc .30 bbs

I guess I'm kinda new to airsoft I've only been doing it for a year andi wanted to get a good reliable gun.

Also I will be doing research and will be teaching my own gun i am just SUPER cautious and I guess I make it sound like I have no money I just want a good reliable DMR that can hit at about 250 feet or a little less and I don't want to lob them too much. Thanks

Edited by nbv386, 12 May 2012 - 10:34 AM.

[superfrog]

Let me save you time and money. Install an rhop and leave it alone. You will get beyond 250ft and nothing else has to change.  Fps doesn't mean range.  Rhop will cost 27$ to get the material. If your tech doesnt kmow about rhop I would let someone who does install it, but really you can do it yourself.  
Also, you can use the briefly nub.

[nbv386]

Ok thanks that answers all of my questions and I'm the only one that aperently knows about the rhop in my town ya then I will just install the rhop and eventually a m130 spring but thanks this is the best forum iv been on so far. Thanks

Edit: I actually have one more question will I NEED to do anything to the hop up chamber for the fire fly nub and with rhop do I still just install normally?

Also if I were to use the mnub instead would it make a substantiall difference?

One more thing is it ok to use .25 bbs or do I need .30 or can I install it for .25 and turn on the hop up for .30?

Edited by nbv386, 12 May 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[superfrog]

If you absolutely have to install a spring which isn't necessary as you have said you can do it later but the only thing that will do for you is get your bb to its mark a bit faster but shooting at the range you are going to get they most likely will hear you fire and before they can react you will hit them.

You do not need to do anything to the hop up chamber or firefly nub. I run all of mine with modified mnubs that look just like firefly nubs.  I cut my stock nub in half and glue it to the mnub. You shouldn't notice a difference at all.

Honestly, I wouldn't use .25s at all.  they don't punch through leaves, twigs etc very well.  At least .3s and you will love it, as a matter of fact using them with your gun how it is now will make a big difference.

Apparently you like .25s.  I was a bit apprehensive to go to heavier bbs because I thought it would hinder my range but actually I have been running .3s in my stock sr7 with fantastic results.  I have changed the spring to give me 410 with .2s but I did this to stop over cycling with my batteries.
I wouldn't mess with .25s with the rhop.  you will need the weight to control and carry your bbs to their target at the distance you are wanting to hit.  .25s simply will not carry that far from my experience.

Just know, the Guarder sp130 you talked about will get you over 500 fps in your 12. the Kwa m130 will put you around 450ish fps. There is a difference between sp&*% and an m&*% spring.  Kwa's have a strange way of acting funny with new springs.  I have seen an sp120 cause a sr10 to shoot up to 500 fps.  Not sure what this is about but the last few guns that have gotten springs at our shop have gotten ridiculous fps.  also, you do not have to shim using this spring but you don't have to shim if you leave it alone, and again, you will be able to use full auto in a pinch.

As far as rhop,  I would use the irhop.  don't mess with the extended rhops or the standard rhop or the zkit.  The regular irhop is weather resistant and easier to work with.  It is the semi clear patches.

Also, a 9.6 battery will work great with the stock set up and rhop.  You will be pleasantly surprised.  Please, don't get caught up in fps wars and mines bigger than yours.  DMR class in airsoft is simply a way to allow people to raise the fps of their gun and still use it.  Granted most people have a longer med, but in most instances the guns do not actually shoot further.  But really its a way to allow many to play and fulfill their need to modify their gun outside the rules.  Sorry guys if this offends anyone.

[nbv386]

Ya if .30 is really that much better I will yes I will use them its just their a little expensive but if I hit my target more then I won't shoot as much and the only reson I want a bigger spring is

1. Some people I play with say they "don't" get hit when they clearly do so adding a little extra kick might help with that

2. Like you said I want it to get to the target faster so I might get an sp120 spring I just want to compensate for the .30s (about 410-42fps with .30)

I herd with an sp120 I won't need to mess with shims is this true?

Edited by nbv386, 13 May 2012 - 04:45 AM.

[ga mercs]

yes you got to love the people who have the kevlar airsoft tactical vest on

[nbv386]

ga mercs, on 13 May 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

yes you got to love the people who have the kevlar airsoft tactical vest on

?

[ga mercs]

nbv386, on 13 May 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

?

you stated that some people dont call their hits,,, ie................. the kevlar airsoft tactical vest