15 replies to this topic

[killerimpulse]

Today i went to an airsoft dealer to look at/for a KWA m4 GBB since this one store was an authorized dealer in jersey. As i was looking thru the glass counter a grown male walked in and started ooking at airsoft hand Gns.  This particular customer is what i would consider a less then desirable member in either group, air soft or real firearms owner.

Now, mind you, i was no more then 6-8 inches away as this conversation went down.
I'll make this short.
This particular gentalman was looking at the airsoft hand Gn and asking about what a good Gn was to shoot glass bottles. The kid working behind the counter instructed him to what a good weight BB to use. Then showed the metal BB's to use and have fun shoot bottle and break them.
i just about fell over when this customer asked what Gn and weighted BB would be good for playing around and driving by his "friends house" and "poppin caps" at them.  The kid working behind the counter started showing him co2 driven hand Gns with shells. The customer asked about the orange cap on the barrel. The kid working said and i quote "oh no problem they can be pulled off to keep it looking real" "That way the orange ring wont give it away the Gn is fake"

Now, i know i cant control the world, but this kid who's family owns the store Im guessing, since he kept asking a women behind the counter questions and starting the question with " hey mom".
It seems to me at least from the message board i read, player seem to keep the sanctity of the sport pretty sacred. But this kid, who is selling these airsoft and knowingly continues to try and sell an airsoft Gn to someone who is telling you what they are intending on doing with it, just seems like an idiotic thing to do especially in NJ.
I not new to firearms and shooting but i am new to the airsoft sport.  So, im trying to learn how the airsoft community interacts with each other and this sport and this store just blows the whole idea right out of the water.

Sorry its a rant but it struck a nerve with me.

[1w3q2e]

What store was this?

[killerimpulse]

Dave and Sheilas Air Soft

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Collingwood  Market... Its a booth inside a flea market.

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[vanevery]

That is not common and not behavior you would see from airsoft players.
I doubt that guy was an airsoft player.
More like a trouble maker looking for trouble.

There is something you can do should you ever be in a similar situation , airsoft related or not.
Get the tag # of his car and take a cell phone pictiure of the car, and the guy if possible.
Save it to your computer.

That way, if you ever read in the newspaper or watch on the news about somone shooting bb's at unsuspecting people or people's property, you can forward that information to the police and maybe get a Crime-Stoppers reward for your actions.

[BoobieM4H]

If i would have been there or it happened at my local airsoft stores my big mouth would have said something to both people. That just makes me mad and its that kind of stuff and people that is endagering airsoft in the state of california. That store should not be representing airsoft like that..idiots!

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[killerimpulse]

Hi vanevery.  now that you mention it, i should have. I did not think to do that. But that's a good idea. I"ll keep that in mind.

Hi boobiem4h. That's exactly my thought. Expecially in NJ. NJ hates GNS in general, let alone air soft.
Normally I might try to educate people, but given certain circumstances, I would have been wasting my breath and time. Neither would have cared.

[Viet]

Although neither party would have cared.  At least be the good angel on their shoulders and properly inform them, at least that way if something did happen and they get on the news or something.  You know that it was not ignorance that led them to be arrested or in trouble.  It would be a little piece of mind for yourself, and maybe just maybe you could change their minds.

My approached would have been to inform both the customer and the kid behind the counter.  Then go to the "mom" and tell her the same thing.  But if that "mom" didn't want to do anything about it, report the store to the authorities for letting a minor sell these replica firearms.

[killerimpulse]

Viet, on 07 August 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Although neither party would have cared.  At least be the good angel on their shoulders and properly inform them, at least that way if something did happen and they get on the news or something.  You know that it was not ignorance that led them to be arrested or in trouble.  It would be a little piece of mind for yourself, and maybe just maybe you could change their minds.

My approached would have been to inform both the customer and the kid behind the counter.  Then go to the "mom" and tell her the same thing.  But if that "mom" didn't want to do anything about it, report the store to the authorities for letting a minor sell these replica firearms.

I like to think that maybe i might change a persons mind or so, but everyone can look at a person and make a pretty good judgment of That persons characters.  #1 The mom was right next to her son and she didn't even blink an eye or show any indifference. #2 the kid, I call a kid was in his twenties at least. If not he's a tall hairy tattooed juvenile. Not that I have issues with hairy people or people with tattoos. #3 the customer was asking for information to perform the act with an airsoft Gn. IMHO I highly doubt he would have cared or listen to reason. # 4 The employees should have explained to the customer that what he is misconstruing as a "Toy" is not a "toy" and should be treated as a real firearm.
I can't change the world, just my little piece

[Viet]

killerimpulse, on 07 August 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

I like to think that maybe i might change a persons mind or so, but everyone can look at a person and make a pretty good judgment of That persons characters.  #1 The mom was right next to her son and she didn't even blink an eye or show any indifference. #2 the kid, I call a kid was in his twenties at least. If not he's a tall hairy tattooed juvenile. Not that I have issues with hairy people or people with tattoos. #3 the customer was asking for information to perform the act with an airsoft Gn. IMHO I highly doubt he would have cared or listen to reason. # 4 The employees should have explained to the customer that what he is misconstruing as a "Toy" is not a "toy" and should be treated as a real firearm.
I can't change the world, just my little piece

That is a true and deep insight.  I just like to be optimistic. When I used to work retail, and I heard someone wanting to miss use my product I straight up refused to sell the product to them until they full understand the legality of things.  Unfortunately, there are far less people willing to do this because they have bills they need to pay and will say anything to make a buck.

[R_King91303]

vanevery, on 04 August 2012 - 07:44 PM, said:

That is not common and not behavior you would see from airsoft players.
I doubt that guy was an airsoft player.
More like a trouble maker looking for trouble.

There is something you can do should you ever be in a similar situation , airsoft related or not.
Get the tag # of his car and take a cell phone pictiure of the car, and the guy if possible.
Save it to your computer.

That way, if you ever read in the newspaper or watch on the news about somone shooting bb's at unsuspecting people or people's property, you can forward that information to the police and maybe get a Crime-Stoppers reward for your actions.

Out here in So Cal, the reputable dealers are required to get state ID info for gun purchases. Since you couldn't take a picture or get a plate # and if you know a sale occurred, you can jot down a memo of the date, time, and store of the sale. That way you can forward that information to the local authorities if anything pops up in the local news (this way you also don't look suspicious taking a picture and remain anonymous).


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[R_King91303]

Viet, on 07 August 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

That is a true and deep insight.  I just like to be optimistic. When I used to work retail, and I heard someone wanting to miss use my product I straight up refused to sell the product to them until they full understand the legality of things.  Unfortunately, there are far less people willing to do this because they have bills they need to pay and will say anything to make a buck.

The question is, if said store in is an official KWA retailer, would KWA look into the matter to see if certain sales people were presenting an "undesirable image"?


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[killerimpulse]

Viet, on 07 August 2012 - 10:29 AM, said:

That is a true and deep insight.  I just like to be optimistic. When I used to work retail, and I heard someone wanting to miss use my product I straight up refused to sell the product to them until they full understand the legality of things.  Unfortunately, there are far less people willing to do this because they have bills they need to pay and will say anything to make a buck.

Yes, as a hobby store (saltwater reef and fish, not airsoft) Myself and staff will take the time to educate a new hobbyist who may have been lead down the wrong road by big box stores. That, IMHO makes us different then a pet store and the big box stores. We wont sell any live stock unless we are confident that the hobbyist is well informed. Some times it does hurt my bottom line in that same sense i sleep better knowing a lion fish is not able to chomp on a wrasse or a coral is not doomed to death being placed in an immature  aquarium.
IMHO it comes down to what is going to pay my bill and allow me to continue to keep my business going without threats of laws and limits.

R_King91303, on 07 August 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

The question is, if said store in is an official KWA retailer, would KWA look into the matter to see if certain sales people were presenting an "undesirable image"?

Well unfortunately, this store is an authorized dealer of KWA along with a couple other brands, thats how i found this particular store. Not that i would call it a store in the least.  The picture on the website is not of the store in question.
I can't expect anyone brand to look into a problem unless it directly involves them or the companies staff, no matter what the outcome could be. Every company is trying to move product and make money just like everyone else. in this business, i can only assume with airsoft that their is an inherited risk that retailer will not do the right thing and run the risk of putting a black eye on the product and company name from the media. A media storm from someone getting killed from an airsoft Gn will not do this hobby any good especially in states that are not fond of people having guns legal or not. For the most part im sure all the manufactures hope the retailer they sell to do the right thing and always try and broadcast their products and sport/hobby in a positive light.

Edited by killerimpulse, 08 August 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[killerimpulse]

Allizard, on 08 August 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

It's not KWA responsibility to police the store in this type of Context.  It's also very hard to police as the burden of proof is on us.  Not on them.  

Beside, just because it's KWA authorized dealer, the store can also be G&G or Echo1 authorized dealer.  Don't they have same responsibility too?!!  I think not.

Yup. Its a shame that a store would conduct themselves in a matter that could have repercussions to hurt others good names. Even if that customer was to do something and hurt someone or himself. Very few people would look at the truth of the matter, No one pulled  the trigger or brandished that Gn, other the person who held it.  Unfortunately, general public sees or hears Gn and now its the manufactures fault retailers fault, never the idiot behind the trigger.

[R_King91303]

Allizard, on 08 August 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

It's not KWA responsibility to police the store in this type of Context.  It's also very hard to police as the burden of proof is on us.  Not on them.  

Beside, just because it's KWA authorized dealer, the store can also be G&G or Echo1 authorized dealer.  Don't they have same responsibility too?!!  I think not.

I wasn't talking about policing the store (contacting authorities, etc.), I was referring more in the context of brand  image protection... so it would be at the discretion of the individual (KWA, G&G, E1, etc.) manufactures if they want to have their products associated with a merchant that is representing themselves as an authorized dealer for their product.




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[killerimpulse]

R_King91303, on 08 August 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I wasn't talking about policing the store (contacting authorities, etc.), I was referring more in the context of brand  image protection... so it would be at the discretion of the individual (KWA, G&G, E1, etc.) manufactures if they want to have their products associated with a merchant that is representing themselves as an authorized dealer for their product.




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i dont think it would work even if they did pull "authorized dealer" As i was ordering my m4s, gas and AEG. The hobby shop was calling a couple distributors along with KWA direct looking for the models i wanted. So, if a hobby shop wants to sell a product or a customer (me) wants a KWA the retailer still has outlets to get what ever.
in the end, you hope nothing negative happens. Luckily, aisoft incidents are few and far between.